tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post2856970702009920510..comments2024-03-14T02:22:26.957+00:00Comments on Point of No Return: Jewish Refugees from Arab and Muslim Countries: Djerba Jews face uncertain futureUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-29239289454060735482017-09-29T08:03:00.883+01:002017-09-29T08:03:00.883+01:00That's precisely Sammish's point - that so...That's precisely Sammish's point - that social mores lag behind the law. But repealing a legal ban has to be a positive first step.bataweenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15829104245735619972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-6479725748835194032017-09-29T03:03:11.506+01:002017-09-29T03:03:11.506+01:00In Israel a Muslim woman only thinking of marrying...In Israel a Muslim woman only thinking of marrying a Christian will likely be honor-killed by her family before she gets to the altar. Not as progressive as Tunisians. Sylvianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-4036080370726734812017-09-29T00:46:46.631+01:002017-09-29T00:46:46.631+01:00There is a strong case to be made for non- religio...There is a strong case to be made for non- religious marriage to be introduced in Israel,<br />But the Tunisian case is a bit different. The non Muslim spouse no longer needs to convert to Islam. Would a Muslim woman who marries a Christian Man in Israel be allowed to convert to Christianity? Surely there is no Israeli law against it.bataweenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15829104245735619972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-16761147755314223732017-09-29T00:24:45.406+01:002017-09-29T00:24:45.406+01:00So I take it you're in favor of a similar law ...So I take it you're in favor of a similar law in Israel.<br /><br /> As you know, in Israel unless one of them converts Jewish women cannot marry foreigners, Shiites cannot marry Sunnites, Arab Christians cannot marry Arab Muslims etc etc<br />They go to Cyprus for a civil marriage, just like Tunisians are probably going to Malta.<br />Sylvianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-38265049951786010262017-09-28T11:38:52.092+01:002017-09-28T11:38:52.092+01:00I did not intend to leave the impression that the ...I did not intend to leave the impression that the liberalisation of marriage law should be seen in the context of Djerban Jews finding a marriage partner, Sylvia - it was 'other news'.... a progressive move towards reducing the stranglehold of Islam over personal relationships. Although Sammish is sceptical, any progress towards equal rights for people of other religions and none must be hailed as a good thing, and should lead to an improved status for minorities, at least on paper.bataweenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15829104245735619972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-43554190352304717082017-09-28T10:52:31.223+01:002017-09-28T10:52:31.223+01:00But how does it explain Bataween's assessment ...But how does it explain Bataween's assessment that it is positive for minority rights in the context of Djerban Jews unable to find a marriage partner? <br /><br />His children will not be Jewish since the mother is a Muslim so it doesn't make any difference whether he converts or not. Where,exactly, is the positive for minority rights?<br />Sylvianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-49464486472858227982017-09-28T10:22:00.686+01:002017-09-28T10:22:00.686+01:00Sammish, Islam is inherited through the male line ...Sammish, Islam is inherited through the male line so it doesn't matter who a Muslim man marries, their kids will be considered Muslim. Such an easy and convenient way to acquire more wives like cattle and have as many children as they want without consequence, no matter the ruling that only if they afford it, they can haveSelinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18215629620223943455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-54870650409773071032017-09-27T23:29:46.342+01:002017-09-27T23:29:46.342+01:00Hi Bataween,
I was aware of your BlogSpot article ...Hi Bataween,<br />I was aware of your BlogSpot article last February. I have read it then. I followed the issue very closely the French media in December and January when it was debated in Morocco. Sorry I haven't commented by then on your entry. I am not sure why. Maybe I was busy or something. The move to rescind the apostasy law is well intended, but having lived in Morocco for so long, I am still skeptical about its impact and genuine application.<br />Several young Moroccan this summer were thrown in jail and given harsh sentences because they wanted to defy the ban on eating in public during the fast month of Ramadan. It goes to show that the laws mean nothing in Muslim country. These young people did not want to exit their religion they just wanted to break one commandment which is that of not fasting. It is an utter governmental hypocrisy. Well the response of the government is that they are not going to be killed like in Saudi Arabia, just a light punishment of 8 or 10 months in prison. I find this despicable. And all this for eating in a restaurant terrace. Beware of deceptions from these progressive countries. It is all a façade. Sammishnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-18210003260015849642017-09-27T21:40:29.587+01:002017-09-27T21:40:29.587+01:00Hi Sammish
Thanks for that very comprehensive expl...Hi Sammish<br />Thanks for that very comprehensive explanation.<br />Here is the link to the article on the revocation of the death penalty for apostasy in Morocco<br />http://jewishrefugees.blogspot.co.uk/2017/02/morocco-deems-apostates-should-not-be.htmlbataweenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15829104245735619972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-50520242652840269452017-09-27T21:08:19.618+01:002017-09-27T21:08:19.618+01:00It is my understanding that a Muslim man can marry...It is my understanding that a Muslim man can marry a woman of any faith, because it is presumed(even taken for truth)given the extreme patriarchial culture that men must dominate women, and that women are weak and of feeble mindset,therefore the wife will automatically follow her husband faith, given that she will always be under the control of his extended family members and under severe restrictions of social contact with outsiders. In a formal ceremony, a man needs 2-3 witnesses in front of a Muslim judge to make the marriage official. It is easy for a man to get 3 witnesses. They can be drawn from his extended family. The non-Muslim woman need not to even recite the article of faith (There is a name for it, I think it is called the Shahadah?) It is the belief in one G.. and M is his prophet.<br /><br />It is however entirely different with Muslim women marrying outside their faith. It is entirely forbidden by Sharia law. It a certain death sentence for a female non-conformist. It is impossible for young Muslim virgins to find someone outside their faith unless they live and work in non-Muslim countries. And even in Europe, and North America, I have read and learned of exceptions which can take years because of the woman not being able to find a mate. In Muslim countries, it is of a rare occurrence. Even then, the would-be husband must not only go through a formal ceremony with a judge by reciting the profession of faith Shahada? but he also needs to have 12 witnesses present. <br /><br />Good luck finding 12 adult male Muslims when you are a non-Muslim hopelessly wanting to marry a Muslim woman. <br /><br />Tunisia legalization of its women to marry outside the faith is nice and dandy. But wait, the nation's laws are not the same as the tribal-family laws. Yes, she can marry, if she wants to be shunned and utterly rejected by her family (if not murdered by some brothers or cousins- heard of honor killings lately?). If, however, her family is progressive enough (less likely) and has relaxed attitudes, then all is paradise of marital bliss and merriment.<br /><br />This reminds me of the recently passed law in Morocco which revoked one Sharia law, a morbid stain of decency and morality within the Islamic faith, which is the accepted and dutiful execution by any mean necessary of any Muslim who change his/her faith. Thanks Morocco. I am impressed. Now the Moroccans can live free of threats and have choice of faith when in reality, there is none whatsoever, simply because no institutionalized religion exists in these countries other than the mad man religion.<br /><br />That's what makes their mad faith baseless when compared with Jewish faith. A Jew/Jewess can become a Buddhist, a Christian, or anything (even becoming a member of the altar of Baal), but he/she will always be a Jew/Jewess regardless, because he is defined as such and was given a trait that transcends the mere choice of shopping and changing religions. He/she can always come back to the fold and be happily accepted and it is even better if he/she makes Teshuva.<br /><br />No change in the laws of these so-called progressive Muslim countries can change the people's deep seated narrow mindedness because it cannot never be "unlearned" or "untangled". It might take many generations. I, however, would not count on it. <br /> <br /> Sammishnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-8291079282520763502017-09-27T19:24:38.406+01:002017-09-27T19:24:38.406+01:00It's a kick in the teeth for sharia law, which...It's a kick in the teeth for sharia law, which insists that a non-Muslim man must convert to Islam to marry a Muslim woman.(I will clarify)bataweenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15829104245735619972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-42798028395289946912017-09-27T19:10:42.161+01:002017-09-27T19:10:42.161+01:00You write
"the announcement that Tunisian wom...You write<br />"the announcement that Tunisian women are allowed to marry non-Muslims is a major positive development for minority rights".<br /><br />What do you mean? Please explain.Sylvianoreply@blogger.com