tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post2048404987184830066..comments2024-03-14T02:22:26.957+00:00Comments on Point of No Return: Jewish Refugees from Arab and Muslim Countries: 'Oil' ended the Eden of the Jews of Iraq - GuardianUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-19284393811589836582008-02-04T00:58:00.000+00:002008-02-04T00:58:00.000+00:00Here's an interesting blogpost for you by a young ...Here's an interesting blogpost for you by a young Egyptian:<BR/>http://liberalwall.blogspot.com/2008/02/anti-semitism-revisited.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-588554220019052462008-02-03T21:43:00.000+00:002008-02-03T21:43:00.000+00:00Does this sound familiar? On Sunday Nov 4th, 1945,...Does this sound familiar? On Sunday Nov 4th, 1945, violence erupted in Libya. Thousands poured into the Jewish quarter and bazaar of Tripoli and went on a looting beating and killing rampage.130 dead, incl 36 children. Throughout the first three days of rioting the civil police stood by and did nothing. The BRITISH MILITARY AUTHORITY WAITED INEXPLICABLY until Tuesday afternoon before sending in the troops.('The fighting could have been stopped in 5 minutes flat' - irate US Air Force sergeant.)<BR/>Norman Stillman, p145bataweenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15829104245735619972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-65698674192591333632008-02-03T21:09:00.000+00:002008-02-03T21:09:00.000+00:00In an appendix to Shamash's book, her son-in-law, ...In an appendix to Shamash's book, her son-in-law, Tony Rocca, shows<BR/>clearly that it should never have happened: I am not clear what message<BR/>Jack is trying to convey by this view of the event. Is he making a case<BR/>for "humanitarian intervention" by the British in this instance, despite<BR/>the fact that this would "unmask" that Britain was the imperial force<BR/>controlling Iraq? Is he saying that they ought to have acted<BR/>nevertheless?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-39526653715682463232008-02-03T15:34:00.000+00:002008-02-03T15:34:00.000+00:00Bataween, There is a lot of malice and deceit and ...Bataween, There is a lot of malice and deceit and ignorance in Ian Jack's article. Where do we begin?? His claim that "oil" is responsible for everything wrong [nice of him not to blame Zionism and the Jews for everything!!] reminds me of the story about Abram, our forefather in Ur Kasdim. You recall that his father Terah left him alone in the idol shop to wait on trade and watch the idols for sale while his Dad was away. But Abram smashed the idols in the meanwhile. When Dad came back, he asked little Abram: Who busted all of these idols that I was going to sell? Abram answered: Daddy, one idol picked up a hammer and started busting all the others. His Dad retorted: How can the idol do that?? He can't walk and he can't move his hands!! <BR/><BR/>Likewise, I ask just how Oil --something like an idol apparently-- could do all that?? Can Oil move his hands or his feet??<BR/><BR/>Just by the way, I believe that Abram's Ur Kasdim was probably Urfa in northwestern Mesopotamia, not Ur in southern Mesopotamia as many archeologists and historians believe today. It was a Britisher named Leonard Wooley who made the mistaken identification, as I recall.<BR/><BR/>I believe that British policy in the Middle East was anti-Jewish throughout the mandatory period and through Israel's War of Independence, in which British forces actually took part on the Arab side on several occasions. See writings of Efraim Karsh, Rory Miller, Elie Kedourie, as well as quotations from Majid Khadduri's book, <I>Independent Iraq</I> on my blog. Also, Christopher Mayhew, no friend of the Jews himself, admitted in one of his books that Ernest Bevin was antisemitic. None of this is in Jack's review, nor is it even hinted at.<BR/><BR/>B, you brought up the issue of collective responsibility, collective guilt, and collective punishment in your response to me. The whole notion of the "innocent civilian" has been destroyed by the Arabs and their supporters in recent years. After all, anybody who supports attacks on Israeli civilians [as in Sderot or as victims of suicide bombings] is denying that those civilians are innocent or that they deserve to be protected. On the other hand, the "human rights" fakers are willing, even eager, to blame Israel for perpetrating "collective punishment" on Arab civilians in Gaza. Further, some exponents of the Arab cause said that French Jews were rightfully victims of attack by Arabs in France because they supported Israel. Again, the death of the "innocent civilian" notion. You probably know that several Jews have been murdered in France since 9-2000 by Arabs for nationalistic/religious reasons. The "left" and the "human rights" crowd have already murdered the "innocent civilian" unless he's an Arab in Gaza or Judea-Samaria. On the other hand, Arabs murdered in Baghdad by the so-called "Resistance" do not count as victims, in the leftist view.<BR/><BR/>Further, Islamic law does stipulate collective guilt by dhimmi groups justifying collective punishment by Muslims. In other words, if an Armenian in the Ottoman Empire harmed a Muslim, then all Armenians were responsible, were guilty, and deserved punishment for the act of one member or a few members of the group.Eliyahu m'Tsiyonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07973268399414290195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-63317038001153587122008-02-03T10:53:00.000+00:002008-02-03T10:53:00.000+00:00Eliyahu, you are quite right. The Sassoons left Ba...Eliyahu, you are quite right. The Sassoons left Baghdad to escape after the oppressive reign of Daoud Pasha, soon after the 1828 massacre and the assassination of the head of the Jewish community. <BR/>Even if Zionism had been a purely western import, Jack himself admits that the Jews of Iraq were not Zionist. How can Zionism be blamed for repercussions on people who themselves did not believe in it?bataweenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15829104245735619972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-45320470401522009712008-02-03T10:40:00.000+00:002008-02-03T10:40:00.000+00:00Bataween, how the British Left can lie!!! Of cours...Bataween, how the British Left can lie!!! Of course, I don't know what Baghdad was like when Violet Shamash was born in the late Ottoman period. However, Jews had emigrated from Baghdad --or from elsewhere in what was to become Iraq-- in the 19th century. Families like the Sassoons went to India. Others came to Israel. Among the latter were the families of Professor A S Yahuda and of David Yellin's mother. Some of the wealthy Baghdadi Jews in India contributed to Jewish institutions in Israel in the late Ottoman period, such as the Kadoorie agricultural school and to the Habad movement's institutions in Israel. If those financial contributions were not exactly Zionism, then they were pretty close, probably too close for the self-righteous "leftist," Mr Jack. <BR/><BR/>Of course, I don't know why those Iraqi Jews emigrated in the 19th century. Maybe they were not happy with paradise.<BR/><BR/>As to the Farhud, according to a British officer, Somerset de Chair, quoted by Bernard Lewis, the order for the British army not to save the Jews of Baghdad came from Anthony Eden, foreign secretary at the time, not directly from Churchill. Eden was also involved in minimizing news of the Holocaust on the BBC during the same period. Here is a link to the quote from de Chair:<BR/>http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2006/05/britain-silent-partner-in-holocaust.html<BR/><BR/>As to the Guardian's lies:<BR/>1- some Iraqi Jews did immigrate or make aliyah to Israel while the country was under the ottoman Empire, and some contributed funds, as I point out above;<BR/>2- Zionism in the sense of a Jewish return to Zion is an age-old idea, not a modern one or a "Western import."<BR/>3- Jack's notion that Iraq could have become a "harmonious, multicultural state," is dubious. Working against such a future was British policy in general which encouraged Arab nationalism [and Islam] against non-Muslim [ie, Jews, Christians, Mandaeans, Yazidis] and non-Arab [Kurds, Turkomans] peoples, plus the Arab-Muslim tradition of subjugating non-Muslims as dhimmis.<BR/><BR/>Further, we have seen very graphically in the last five years that Sunni Arabs have a hard time accepting Shi`ite Arab predominance even when the Shi`ites are the overwhelming majority, let alone accepting the equality of dhimmi peoples. Now, it may well be that UK and US policy over the years exacerbated and encouraged Sunni Arab-Muslim bigotry, but they did not create it. How ignorant Jack is of the real political history of Iraq, before and after the British takeover!!<BR/><BR/>Then his use of "oil" as an explanation for the many problems is both simplistic and in fact stupid. He does not explain how this thick, smelly liquid substance could or did cause Iraq to become less of a paradise. He merely says that "oil" was "the principal reason for British interest." But then he adds that oil was discovered in Iraq only in 1927, whereas the British had conquered the country ten years before. Oil is hardly a sufficient explanation for either British policy or Arab massacres of fellow Iraqis, even fellow Arabs.Eliyahu m'Tsiyonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07973268399414290195noreply@blogger.com