tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post8673285854576933566..comments2024-03-14T02:22:26.957+00:00Comments on Point of No Return: Jewish Refugees from Arab and Muslim Countries: Peter Beinart blackens 'white' Eli YishaiUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-75894562582847495952012-08-21T19:35:23.658+01:002012-08-21T19:35:23.658+01:00Shlomo Sand's work may be compelling but it...Shlomo Sand's work may be compelling but it's rubbish. Every geneaological study including the most recent one proves him wrong. bataweenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15829104245735619972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-44425434895398846692012-08-21T16:45:25.042+01:002012-08-21T16:45:25.042+01:00a couple of points. you write:
Jews from Arab co...a couple of points. you write: <br /><br />Jews from Arab countries are not Arabs. Even Egyptian non-Jews do not see themselves as Arabs. (Beinart’s grandma came to Egypt from Rhodes, I believe. That makes her Greek/Italian.) <br /><br />Not entirely true. A tendentious historiogrpahy has muddied the waters but Schlomo Sand argues compellingly that modern israelis are a mixed people with Turkic, European, Punic, Berber and Arab antecedents. What you probably believe, the ethnocultural and ethnoreligious narrative that most people believe about a unified, homogenous people is false. part of the zionist mythmaking that justified a return to Israel. If it were put about that most Ashkenazis were of Khazar stock and that judaism was once a proselytizing religion, then the historic claim to the land would evaporate. Read Shlomo Sand if you don't believe. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-2503622897712664652012-06-16T23:51:25.760+01:002012-06-16T23:51:25.760+01:00Most likely, Sylvia, beinart, weiss, & gurvitz...Most likely, Sylvia, beinart, weiss, & gurvitz are hacks on somebody's payroll.Eliyahu m'Tsiyonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07973268399414290195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-68103247007403785352012-06-13T22:09:55.637+01:002012-06-13T22:09:55.637+01:00Thanks for your input, Sylvia. The subtleties have...Thanks for your input, Sylvia. The subtleties have been lost in translation!bataweenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15829104245735619972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-59420092212191910122012-06-13T21:20:54.428+01:002012-06-13T21:20:54.428+01:00Please hold your horses!
Elie Yishai was only REP...Please hold your horses!<br /><br />Elie Yishai was only REPEATING what North Sudanese (who are Muslim and consider themselves Arabs) often say to old-time residents of the Tahana Merkazit when they complain: "this belongs to us, not to you whites".<br />Elie Yishai was being ironic while at the same time illustrating his "didn't I tell you so? See what wwe have come to?" bit.<br /><br />He was particularly being ironic when he said "us whites" for reasons most Israelis who follow closely the daily debates understand. But the most obvious and which makes the statement by the "refugee" even funnier is the fact that the African refugees/illegal workers/Eritrean army dodgers were bused directly from the Egyptian border to poor "Mizrahi" neighborhoods, on direct order "from above" (at the time the Olmert/Livni government).<br /><br />In fact, Yishai has been asking his detractors why they don't take them to "Rehavia" (a "good" Jerusalem suburb) or to North Tel Aviv (also mostly East/Central European).<br /><br />So to say that he doesn't think of himself as "white" would be an understatement.<br /><br />I am definitely closing the book on Peter Beinart and putting him up on that dusty shelf right next to Mondoweiss and Yossi Gurvitz. I fail to see the difference.sylvianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-72425612993332175642012-06-13T16:42:14.638+01:002012-06-13T16:42:14.638+01:00In earlier years, some "leftists" saw Je...In earlier years, some "leftists" saw Jews from Arab lands who had come to live in Israel as traitors to the Arabs. As if the Arabs owned them and they needed to be loyal to them. "Leftists" wanted these Jews to work for revolution in Arab lands. Jewish Communists in Poland and USSR used to tell Jews in those places the same thing. Then there were the "leftists" like Gidon Levy who wishes that these Jews had not come to Israel --for several reasons. And of course "leftists" wanted to believe the false notion that the Arabs had always treated the Jews well. Therefore, the Jews had no need to come to Israel.Eliyahu m'Tsiyonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07973268399414290195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-45276130714024846282012-06-13T08:27:34.757+01:002012-06-13T08:27:34.757+01:00Agree with you that Yishai's 'white man...Agree with you that Yishai's 'white man' remark was a stupid one and a gift to his detractors.<br />Leftists can only conceive of Mizrahi Jews as victims of Ashkenazim - they use the facile white-colonialist-oppressing-brown native paradigm. Of course it is largely nonsense, the points that unite Ashkenazim and Mizrahim far outnumber what divides them. The assumption that Mizrahim are people of colour is a nonsense too, plenty of fair-skinned blonds among us.bataweenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15829104245735619972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-17622204904985285732012-06-12T12:53:32.478+01:002012-06-12T12:53:32.478+01:00Whatever one's opinion on what needs to be don...Whatever one's opinion on what needs to be done about Israel's situation with the refugees/migrant workers/infiltrators, Eli Yishai's comment implicitly equating "Jewish Israel" with "white Israel" was stupid and obnoxious and a gift to Israel's detractors who constantly peddle the trope all over the Web on anti-Israel fora that Israeli society is a "white European colonial ettler state" opressing "indigenous brown natives." Now they have a prominent Israeli politician voicing that POV (never mind that he's kinda brown himself and of North African Jewish heritage).<br /><br />That said, when I frequently argue back with people making this false assertion that Israeli society is largely copmposed of Jews whose families have never left the Middle East/North Africa, sometimes the anti-Israel cultists are willing to acknowledge this reality, but then assert things along the lines of "Well, those are the brown Jews who are kept down by the white Jews. They should join with their brown Palestinian brothers!" Although anti-Sepharadi/Mizrahi discrimination certainly did exist in the early years of the State and prejudice still exists in many quarters still--not only among the Ashkenazi post-Zionist hard left that you mention, but also in many Haredi circles--the other ignorant and facile assumption I find particularly galling is the assertion that Mizrahi Jews (and Arabs) are always uniformly of swarthy complexion and Ashkenazim are always fair-skinned. Middle Eastern people (including Arabs, Jews, and Kurds, are mostly white.)In my own family, many of my Syrian and Morrocan Jewish relatives are faiere-skinned than some of my Ashkenazi relatives of Polish and Russian descent. <br /><br /><br />There has been a tendency as of late among Israel-bashers to racialize the conflict that I've noticed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-77055976034253538472012-06-11T18:20:22.558+01:002012-06-11T18:20:22.558+01:00There's an Elizabeth Warren/George Zimmerman c...There's an Elizabeth Warren/George Zimmerman comparison in here, but it'd probably be in poor taste.<br /><br />Don't know whether to laugh or cry.<br /><br />As always, thx for an informative blog.<br /><br />HeatherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-73196920467654445072012-06-11T15:53:53.937+01:002012-06-11T15:53:53.937+01:00Beinart represents an all too common phenomenon in...Beinart represents an all too common phenomenon in American life, the bright, young glib opportunist who is always ready to offer justifications for currently fashionable notions. For example, in 2003 he supported George Bush' invasion of Iraq. In 2012 when Israel is being kicked around by the mainstream media herd more than ever, he joins in kicking Israel while it's down. Beinart is nothing if not <i>bien pensant</i>.Eliyahu m'Tsiyonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07973268399414290195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-57369184579339763862012-06-10T17:13:48.526+01:002012-06-10T17:13:48.526+01:00Point taken about Rhodes. And Beinart's misund...Point taken about Rhodes. And Beinart's misunderstanding of Amsallem's party only shows how little he really knows about Israeli politics.bataweenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15829104245735619972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12677825.post-88127394535610512022012-06-10T17:04:55.800+01:002012-06-10T17:04:55.800+01:00Rodos was Italian for a brief 20 years ... I assum...Rodos was Italian for a brief 20 years ... I assume like my Nonnou, and many relatives on my paternal side, Beinart's grandmother was born in this era. <br /><br />As for R' Haim Amsalem's Am Shalem party/movement - it's NOT a Mizrachi political party ... It's essentially a 'social justice' party.Avramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16296573781960136899noreply@blogger.com